Curse

actionjack · Feb 02, 2006, 02:09 AM // 02:09

I am sure by now, many will agree that the main plot line (the one that you get by doing missions) of GW to be "lackluster". I think it is due to many factors, such as lack of memorible NPCs, the story feel to segmented, lack of supporting lores and litertures, weak interaction between player to the game world, etc. Of course, since this is a post in suggestion forum, the main puropose is not to whin, but to ask what can be done to improve such things

So write up on what you think could be added to improve the story line sides of GW gaming. It could be suggestion for the current chapter 1 story line, or elements that would help imrpove on the future chapter's story line.

Kai Nui · Feb 02, 2006, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Unless you actually have a suggestion, why post? Let people that have ideas post their own thread, that's what they'll end up doing anyway... Kind of a waste.

Gorebrex · Feb 02, 2006, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

Unless you actually have a suggestion, why post? Let people that have ideas post their own thread, that's what they'll end up doing anyway... Kind of a waste.

I disagree, hes asking people to post suggestions for stoyline improvements.

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

I am sure by now, many will agree that the main plot line (the one that you get by doing missions) of GW to be "lackluster". I think it is due to many factors, such as lack of memorible NPCs, the story feel to segmented, lack of supporting lores and litertures, weak interaction between player to the game world, etc. Of course, since this is a post in suggestion forum, the main puropose is not to whin, but to ask what can be done to improve such things

So write up on what you think could be added to improve the story line sides of GW gaming. It could be suggestion for the current chapter 1 story line, or elements that would help imrpove on the future chapter's story line.

I suggest this be sticky'd as it is a fairly new post, has few replies(easily moved if needed, as of now), and be used for consolidating other similar threads.

Kakumei · Feb 02, 2006, 02:48 PM // 14:48

The story, of all things, is somewhat difficult to modify at this stage--the game's out, people are generally familiar with what happens where and when. Unless they modify dialogue/cutscenes, I don't know what else they could do with it--and I'm sure many people, after reading/watching those once, skip through them every time after, so they might not even notice any changes.

Orbberius · Feb 02, 2006, 02:52 PM // 14:52

I'm not a big PvE player, but I think one thing Anet could do is to have missions that launch when you enter a city. This isn't a suggestion for the main campaign, but just small little mini-events that happen once in a while, to keep up interest in the story and add to the game world.

For example, say you log on, open up the map and teleport to Lion's Arch. What would happen is, you download a bunch of stuff and right away, even before you enter the city, a cinematic pops up. An quick example is: A Kurzick "prophet" has arrived in Lion's Arch, trying to get Ascalonians to aid the Kurzicks in their war against Luxon. So he's talking to a crowd of people and all of a sudden a ninja comes out of nowhere and assassinates him and everyone listening to the prophet screams and runs away in confusion. Then you're put into Lion's Arch and you're given a mission: find out more about who the prophet is, where he's coming from and what he's doing there or find out who killed the prophet, where's these ninjas are hiding or whatever. I dunno, something along those lines.

The killer thing is that Lion's Arch would actually change for this mini-event. There could be the Ascalon equivalent of police officers in the scene and big crowds around the murder scene and all the NPCs talking about the murder.

I won't really elaborate further on this crappy example, but I think it would be cool to have a city change like that as part of a mini-event/quest.

Ravenglass · Feb 02, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

I didn't actually mind the story myself - I did however think it 'lost' it somewhere in the middle, as it didn't explain itself too well about the 'mantle' and why certain events happened. (Without giving away a spoiler here) The only way you could find this out was talking to NPC's in some of the towns, (Some of which didn't have ! above their heads so I didn't talk to them and missed some of the story.)

So I would just like the story to be played out a little easier - I don't wanna have to dig around to find it, I like the above posters idea, that would really keep the story-line moving, and also give you a clue of who to speak to first in a town or an outpost.

striderkaaru · Feb 02, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

i didn't see a problem with the story either. it makes a lot of sense if you put it all together. and honestly, life is kinda like that. things change and new developments come up. i think i would have been bored if all we had to deal with was the charr.

the problem is with that one quest in the jungle that takes you to an outpost, effectively skipping 2 missions crucial to the storyline. this is the sole reason people get confused so much. they need to fix that first.

Jenosavel · Feb 02, 2006, 05:17 PM // 17:17

My main problem with the story is that there is little closure. Due to the repeatability of the missions, nothing ever changes. Every time you go back to a town, the NPCs will still be talking as though you never attempted the mission before, even if you've completed the game. This creates a huge disconnect between the player and the gaming world and leaves your actions without any apparent consequence. Half the fun in most story-driven games is to revisit familiar places and see the sometimes unexpected result of your previous actions. This is readily apparent in how powerful the Searing is for most players. You know Old Ascalon and (most people) loved it, now you have to re-explore the same areas and see the way they've changed. Comparing landmarks you know to what they've now become really connects you to the game. For me at least, this was especially strong with seeing how Piken Square, the non-descript little ruin north of the wall, became a busy base of operations in the fight against the Charr.

We can't have the entire game world change and be separate after every single mission town though. It would segment the community far too much, in addition to be an abominable amount of work. However, I think having multiple scripts for the NPCs that trigger based on which missions you've completed would be an alternative that could work. Since what NPCs say to the player appear for no one else but that player, the same NPC can be saying different things to different players at the same time thus not interfering with either person's sense of immersion and giving them appropriate responses to their level of completion.

Now, I really appreciate the amount of work writing script for NPCs is, and I can really understand why ANet may have chosen not to do this. However, the immersion factor of the game dramatically drops off and I believe something needs to be done to change this. If not anymore in the Prophecies Campaign then surely for Factions. Even having the NPCs dialogue only update after the player has reached certain milestones such as ascension or completing the game would be a vast improvement.

Let us feel like we've accomplished something when we revisit our favorite towns!

toastgodsupreme · Feb 02, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27

A lot of the dialogue was HORRIBLE.

Introducing Glint's voice over near the mission into HoD was bad because it took FOREVER to reach Glint after that (we must assume we've never played through the game before for this). The voice itself was... eh.

Rurik was a tool, I did not feel any compassion for him. I did not get attached to his character, and I believe he died too soon for any player to feel anything for him. (Remember back to the first time you played FF7 and Aeris died... I mean damn, I was shocked and saddened and whatnot. Rurik, well, I was GLAD he was gone.)

Basically the story feels like it was a rushed piece of work, and not something the game was actually based around (stfu to you PvP only kids, don't want to hear it, this isn't for you).

Edit: Fixed wrong name, made this more constructive.

Diablo™ · Feb 02, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

A lot of the dialogue was HORRIBLE.

So true, especially that of the Seer near iron mines. melodramatic overacting, pointing out the obvious, very slow timing. It was like watching a badly dubbed anime.

actionjack · Feb 02, 2006, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

The story, of all things, is somewhat difficult to modify at this stage--the game's out, people are generally familiar with what happens where and when. Unless they modify dialogue/cutscenes, I don't know what else they could do with it--and I'm sure many people, after reading/watching those once, skip through them every time after, so they might not even notice any changes.

This is sorta 3 part post in asking for feedbacks. 1, is to hear what is weak about the existing story presentation of GW (since knowing the problem is half of fixing) 2nd, how to further improve on that for future story line (chapter 2 and onward) and 3rd, the more challenge part, of how to modify the existing one to be more RP and exciting, with out too much effort. (enough to make people want to play them again)

I will try to put up some possible suggestion on this topic later... if i can get them organize and written down...

Gorebrex · Feb 02, 2006, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Asking what the community fwlt was bad/mising/not done well in Prophecies Campaign is fine, but ANet is NOT going to go back and change any of it now, its FAR too late for that, same with Prophecies, but minor tweaks MIGHT be possible. Maybe some of these ideas will be seen in the 3rd chapte, but thats the ear;iest we'd see them, IMO.

Rayne Nightfyre · Feb 02, 2006, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

Introducing Grenth's voice over near the mission into HoD was bad because it took FOREVER to reach Grenth after that

I thought that was Glint's voice at the end of Aurora Glade?

actionjack · Feb 03, 2006, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Being an egoist that I am, I won’t be making a suggestion post without have suggestion for it. Of cousse, since the main story is presented mostly by the Missions, I will focuses more on what could be added in mission for making a better story.

NPC:
It is the people that make up a good story. Thus character interaction between player and NPC, as well as between NPC and NPC, are essential in making good RP games.

DanTheTimid (in a reply to this topic), put it so nicely that I will just quote him instead:

Quote:

More scripted npc dialogue during quests would be really nice, cynn, menlo and the whole gang seem like they could have interesting personalities if they were given a chance to interact within scenarios. In missions more dialogue driven cutscenes would also be really nice, there are a handful now but not nearly enough to really develop anyone, the only character who gets any significant development is Prince Rurik and once he left the story no other character ever really stood out to me which is a shame because there was quite a bit of story left and a number of characters who could have been interesting but I never really got to "know" them.

Another thing I'd have liked was more behind the scenes cutscenes. I liked seeing the lich plotting, I'd have liked to see his plans more indepth to get a greater feeling for the magnitude of what I was over coming when I defeated him. And while were at it I'd like to see what cynn and gang were up to when they weren't with me, I'm sure they were off having an interesting adventure, and when they were with me it would have been nice to have some sort of character developing or just comical prologue with them chatting with me after the mission. After all even if some ones beaten the mission before or doesn't care, once it saves they can just exit out while I sit and enjoy a little snippet of tv-esque fun as an extra spoils of my victory.

Adding to that, also have henchman have phrase dialogues as they react to their and enemies’ action. They should also get more scripted dialogues (like Rurik might ask little Tom about “Havn’t I seen you before?”, or hench yelling “Run for your life!” in the first mission as the Charr chase you down.). This would also add some replay value (one go with friends, another go with just the hench to see what they would say or do)

Also have monster and enemy say something too. (Charrs my yell “Burn Human, Burn to Crisp!”) Can even have it where if you “Sneak” in close enough, you can hear them talking to one another. (like in the Riverside mission)

Sections:
The Story of GW seems very choppy. Where you are facing one enemy in one part, and another in later part. I would want to see it be section off. It would be just simply have a added title to the beginning and ending cut scenes. (the Shield thingie). Maybe call it “Prologue”, “Call to Arm”, “The Passage”, “New Land, New Threat”, “Crystal Desert”, “Enemy from Unknown”, and “Hell” (I am sure you can think of better names). So why would this help? I would think that it make player have a better sense of finishing something and starting another new, and less of break in between (since you know it is a break)

Better Filler in Between Missions:
I am still confuse of the format of missions to the general timeline. So you are playing part of the Lore/Story of the past? Or is it happening at the “current” time? In any case, the outpost should be fill with more than just the lore master, but other NPC that support the overall theme of that mission. (Like if the Charrs are breaking over the wall, you see soldiers running around, putting out fires, arming them self, with the captain yelling at them. Also they should better refer you to what mission you did (like someone say “thank you for warning us of charrs attack”, etc) as to give a better link between this new mission to your last one.

Spitting Storyline:
I think it is too hard to make the ending split. However, could have some lead way in mission. While the end result is going to be the say, how to get there could be spit into different path. Maybe will have to make some choices mid way in the mission that would change your path.

More Task within Mission:
More NPCs in mission, as well as more task that they can give. I would be like more 2ndary, but with out the bonus exp. They will be like optional quest, which is mean to further get player involve into the story.

More Outside Lores: More Lores that deal with the history, culture, and legend of the game world, which would make them self apparent from time to time in the Mission. (usually you would learn those in town or exploration areas.)

Actually, a lot of things are already in the game, but just not use fully.

toastgodsupreme · Feb 03, 2006, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayne2550

I thought that was Glint's voice at the end of Aurora Glade?

Sorry, lol, I used the wrong name. Stupid winterfest engraving Grenth into my head.

Roupe · Feb 03, 2006, 08:57 PM // 20:57

WARNING this include some GW story spoilers

Foreword

I like the game for several things other than the overall storyline, I´m an avid fan -despite my nitpickings here.

How can people be/stay dead in a world where there necromancers and spells like resurrection. Perhaps this is why some npcs are are so suicidal/sacrificial prone.

As for the story, I havnt seen the whole prophesy text (though i have been looking for it a bit), it be nice to see it , since there are several npcs that seem to know about it.

OVERAL
The white mantle arch is lacking pretty much and is to much railroading, the heroes are naive and suffer from betrayal time and time again, and also suffers from reoccurring events where somewhat valuable allies makes almost pointless sacrifices in leeroy style (Rurik, evinias ranger chick, dwarfs, etc).

the Mursats motivation for preventing the players and killing the chosen seem almost good (we have to stop some chosen from the gods from attacking us (mursats), helping undeads and releasing titans.. )The Seer seem like the next good candidate for an evil villain

More in detail
The motivations of doing (8.) D'Alessio Seaboard is somewhat little, but its fairly ok. But later on its not enough ascalonian ties that support the white mantle/lich/mursat story ark . , And besides at this point the heroes should be more worried about the ascalonian refugees, the charr and the undeads rather than helping or opposing the white mantle -as it seems now the heroes are naive & foolish (how they can ditch the scepter the last time is beyond me)

a Spitting Storyline would be nice to have at this point rather than doing the Divinity coast

(9. )Divinity Coast). Despite the fact that the white mantle promoted the heroes for helping them against the undead, the heroes have a whole lot of other problems , to solve before taking up additional task. It really needs something more to motivate them. At this point its common to have finished some quests that casts doubts on the whole white mantle. Which should make the heroes even reluctant, having some trusted allies reassure their faith in krytans and the White mantle is seriously needed at this point.

Regarding the mission why didn't the eye mark the heroes as chosen?(and if so why wouldn't the mantle do something about it)

for storytelling purposes it would have been much better to have the end of Bloodstone fen here and a small ambush by the White mantle, and a daring rescue from unknown allies . An then a later mission would be tracking them down. (that is merge Divinity Coast with Bloodstone Fen & alter the wilds motivation for tracking down the shining blade)

(10.) The Wilds, even here good motivation is laking

(11. )Bloodstone Fen, another group of chosen? The white mantles knowledge of the treachery of their allies are far to fast (well, they have infiltrators, but still Its strange that the heroes don't even reflect at this) and for story purposes it would be better if it was delayed to (13.) Riverside Province, up to that point there have been few surving white mantle

Improvements,

I like something i call "makeup/ filter", it utilizes the fact that people are playing on a computer, and don't need to see the exact same thing, so a makeup is done so they see what they need to see

with this opposing pvp players are portrayed as charr invaders for instance (for a defend the fort arena, as an example) but the player at the computer does never see that his opponents view him as something else, or notices that his emotes or comments are obfuscated/replaced while they look at him with their makeup filter

Applying makeup to towns to advance the storyline and to prevent logical faults (with make up filter active it would be visual impossible to walk up to Rurik after frost gate mission and tell him -I saw you die..)
naturally one could have an option to turn off the storyline makeup filter (for those that like how things are now) In short, as the story , quests and bonus progress so does the visual appearance of the towns and outposts

for instance after 4. Nolani Academy, ascalon could be altered (after all the king banished the heroes and Rurik..) some Guards are more hostile, and informs about the banishment -and that time is going short, ascalonians are packing gear and are mobilizing an escape

After Frost gate, Rurik cant be seen or quests given by him cant be done /completed(unless the storyline enhancement is turned off)

after (11. )Bloodstone Fen, Lions arch is EXTREMLY hostile and is either unreachable(unless the storyline enhancement is turned off) but given lions arch importance as a hub for the guild wars community that option may not be wise.

With the "makeup'" lions arch could looks like the players are there at night and have to avoid the white mantle sentries, or is disguised as white mantle soldiers to avoid detection, many of the npcs are altered , or perhaps lions arch is replaced by some Shining blade encampment where people say they need a better base (hint hint Denravi)

Unfinished story threads id like to see developed
The staff of ORR, the players didn't take it, they left this valuable staff to be looted by someone else (most likely the treasure hoarding glint). They should need it again, since it can command titans, and there are titans still at large (despite the several titan quests),
perhaps some npc can tell the players that the staff is still in existance despite them leaving it.

Glen tapestryshred, broken flute, etc

The seer, he was in league with Glint and enemy to Mursat, he knew about the prophesy (making him somewhat in leuge with the lich) . Candidate for evil villain -topped with smirking, annoying voice

The Charr ,I feel that they have still much to offer to the story (despite titan source quest)

Martian · Feb 04, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

I always thought that the whole point of the game was to save Tyria from the Charr until i realised they had not been mentioned all the way throught Kryta.
The charr were supposed to be the ultimate bad guys, the real enemy that you had to run from at first only to return and kick ass much later, which you do, but only as a momentary distraction from the titans.
I always thought they needed more inclusion in the game instead of all this:
Help the mantle--> kill the mantle
Kill the shining blade--> Help the shining blade
Help the lich--> kill the lich--- blah blah blah BLAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

actionjack · Feb 04, 2006, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

I always thought that the whole point of the game was to save Tyria from the Charr until i realised they had not been mentioned all the way throught Kryta.
The charr were supposed to be the ultimate bad guys, the real enemy that you had to run from at first only to return and kick ass much later, which you do, but only as a momentary distraction from the titans.
I always thought they needed more inclusion in the game instead of all this:
Help the mantle--> kill the mantle
Kill the shining blade--> Help the shining blade
Help the lich--> kill the lich--- blah blah blah BLAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

There seems to be lacking a Central Villian. I guess the titans is it.. but they seem very .. uh.. dumb... and not one who would be ploting those evil deeds. Lich is somewhat more fitting... but he only appear very late in game, and have not much influences toward the bad guy in the first part, the Charrs. As said.. everything just feel ver sagmented.

Maybe have a Grand Titan God? One which Charr worship, and hiddes behind the scene, even fooling the Lich in letting him think he has the control of the Titan army for brief a time, only as a way to plot his own escape.

Can even have it in the later chapter where he will try to free his other "Titan Brothers", and you have to stop him.

------------------------------------------------------
Also more reoccuring NPC characters is a Must. You feel a special kinship to them if they were also progress with you (especially if you help them before). It is like old friend. Guys like Old Pet and his pet devour, Gwen (and Gwen's mom that you meet in unerworld), and other. Thus linking a NPC character to an event, to another character, or to a quest, and have them show up in later time, is a great addtion. Its done more in the Pre-sear/Sear Ascalon area.. but not much at all in the later missions.

Sunsu Pyro · Feb 04, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

I like the idea of a grand titan god. Maybe the titan god has grew enough power to take control of Grenth and control the underworld (explaining the new enemies in tombs).

Oronar · Feb 04, 2006, 10:53 PM // 22:53

I realize I'm in the vast, vast minority (or possibly silent majority?), but I was quite pleased with the storlyine. Realistically, of all the MMO's I've played GW is the only one that even had a storlyine, and yes, I'm categorizing it as an MMO because it belongs to that general family of games, even if they decide to market it as a CORPG. Aside from a few inconsistencies, most of which could be imaginatively explained away, the biggest failing of the game was some wooden voice acting and cheesey dialogue. The plot is easy to understand if you actually bother to watch all the cutscenes, and doing the quests helps to fill in the bigger picture somewhat. Also the lore book you get with the game explains A LOT. I bet most people don't bother to read it and subsequently don't understand the history of Tyria. I do agree that the Charr plot line left me wanting closure, but that leaves opportunities for later chapters. Seriously though, did you think that the very first monsters you would meet out the gate would be the same ones you'd be fighting until the end of the game? I'm hoping that later content will involve taking the war to the Charr capital in the far north, possibly involving a siege of a huge castle, like an inverse Lord of the Rings... anyway, it's just another potential point for later development.

As for improving the storyline in later chapters, there are a few simple things it seems eveyone wants to see:

1) Better voice acting and dialogue.
2) NPC characters/heroes that will actually stick around long enough for you to develop an attachment to them.
3) A more seamless progression of the storyline. CLEARLY explain why the heroes are going wherever and make it obvious that it is beneficial to their cause and their own best interests. In Prophecies, most people didn't understand why the heroes bothered to continue on past Kryta. Avoid problems like this. Spell it out if you have to.
4) Central villain that will remain constant throughout the storyline. That way when you finally beat him/her it will be deeply satisfying.
5) Some recognition of your accomplishments in PvE affecting the lives of NPC's. Myself, I don't care about this much, but it seems like PvE folks feel kind of helpless, as if their hero isn't really doing all that much in the long run.

There are many other more specific things that people have and will suggest, but I think these are good general guidelines to work with.